Questions about the Cantonia Independence movement; an Interview with Setsuna K


This was supposed to be the last project from Fluxus Cantonia Art Collective before its formal conclusion on March 1st, 2023; but we decided to do something more (which results in the FCAC Cantonese romanization) and postponed the date. Because the material is from early February 2023, some info might be greatly outdated.
Cantonia is a proposed nation in South-East Asia, right at the southern border of current day China and north-east border of Vietnam. It covers current day Guangdong, Hainan and southern Guangxi. You can read about it more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese_nationalism .
Japgenksank, a Cantonian historian, has written an account of Cantonia's history in 2016 (in Chinese); you can get a digital copy typesetted by Setsuna K here:
https://github.com/setsuna-k/a-history-of-cantonia/releases/tag/0.1.0
If you have more questions, feel free to contact Setsuna at zingleon [at] protonmail [dot] com.

Okay, so tell me what's this whole fuss about.


We are working so one day Cantonia can restore its independent state established back in 1911. Cantonia is a proposed nation in South-East Asia, right at the southern border of current day China and north-east border of Vietnam. It covers current day Guangdong, Hainan and southern Guangxi. We mainly speaks Cantonese, Hakka and Teoswa languages and of course, because we are currently occupied by PRC and CCP has been pushing cultural genocide in Cantonia, the younger generations speak Mandarin as well.

Why are you people demanding independence?


We are not Chinese and we do not wish to be a part of China. No sane person would and should wish to be a part of China. The thing about big empires is that they'll do anything they can to drain the local regions of their powers so that they can sustain themselves; and the profits in this process go to no one but the bureaucracy. This is what had happened after the second (and current) Republic of China was established, and the thing hasn't changed a bit ever since; it's just people suffer a lot more under CCP rule.

You are not Chinese?


No, we are not Chinese or Han people, we are one of the many groups of Bach Viet* ("Hundred Viet") people. We take the Han name throughout the history only because that's how you earn more advantage for your people within the system of Central Empire when you're nothing but southern barbarians. In the current days we are forced to be citizens of PRC, just like people in East Turkestan (Uyghur) and Tibet are forced to be citizens of PRC. We, including other Bach Viet nations like Hokkienam (閩越), Goetland (吳越) and Komland (贛越), are different from the northerners, both historically and genetically. A lot of CCP supporters said that those who supports Hong Kong independence are not Chinese but rather "Vietnamese monkeys". There are some truth in this: we do be closer to Vietnamese people in terms of genetics than whichever ethnic group "Han" is supposed to refer to.

*: In ancient Sinitic texts, Yue mainly refers to people who lives at the south of the Yangtze River; the "Viet" in the name Vietnam has been the same word as Yue.

If one day Cantonia gained its independence, what would happen to the non-Cantonians living in Cantonia before?


Fist of all, all CCP party members have to be killed unless they denounce their CCP status and join our side. The same should be done to the CCP members who have fled or been living abroad. Non-party members are technically foreigners at this point, and thus are treated with common rules for treating foreigners. Also being "Chinese who are local to Guangdong" does not mean you're a Cantonian automatically; only the one who's on our side is. Of course, all that can and will be changed to fit the best interest of us; it depends on how things actually play out.

You're obviously against CCP; do you support ROC/Kuomintang?


No. Please remember we are not just anti-CCP - we are anti-China, or anti-northern-empire. Some people might be thinking that because CCP is the "bad guy" so KMT being the opposite party shall be the "good guy". The fact is they're not. To us they're the same, two different sides of the same coin.

Would Hong Kong be a part of Cantonia?


It depends. I don't think it would be. I believe that Hong Kong should stay independent as a free city state and it would be much more beneficial to both us and them. It really depends on a lot of things because the actual border can only be drawn as the result of war. You see people like Jacob Pius coming up with different versions of the map[*], but they are hypotheses, and hypotheses are only hypotheses after all.

*: The map depicting future balkanization of China.

What would be your prediction of the overall outcome?



But what if anyone mentioned is not happy with this outcome...?


It's OK, we can always talk thing out. The important thing is, you can always negotiate with us, we're all civilized people here; but you can't negotiate with CCP.

Speaking of balkanization maps, what's your opinion on people saying things like "balkanization fetish" and "imaginary maps aren't real geopolitics"?


Of course imaginary maps themselves aren't real geopolitics, but you have to understand, the maps aren't geopolitics, but rather the result of the thought and discussion of geopolitics - not just any thought and discussion, it's *our people's thought and discussion*; and also, what do those fuckers know about geopolitics? What do those fuckers know about China? They just spew out words, they know fucking nothing. In fact, if it were not for Sun Yat-sen and the Soviet Union, we would've been long balkanized of our own will through the federalist movement in the 1920s. One thing you have to understand is that the hidden message behind these kind of accusations is "we might as well let China keep staying in one piece", which in the end always lead to the pro-China pro-CCP route.

Are you people right-wing?


A lot of separatists are. Me, I'm not that much of a right-wing, I'm just a praticalist. If something's more likely to get me to my goal, I'll take it, no question asked. I used to be a leftist but now I'm here, that's why.

Why did you ditch the left? I mean surely there are leftists that are also separatists, Can Gwingming (陳炯明; Chen Jiongming) was also pretty leftist in his time as well...


Because the current western leftist scene won't do jackshit. I also have wished that globalization could go on forever and maybe one day everyone in the world would have the same luscious life people in the free world once had, but that's not happening. I have just accepted the fact that I have to do very bad authoritarian right-wing things to create a not-that-bad world, that's it.

I see you people have been arguing with... Manchurians?


Ah, yes, Manchurians. I'm not actively involved with the arguing personally, it's a waste of time after all. But there do be a strange difference in their narrative. We consider China as the ultimate enemy, but Manchurians would tell you it's the "southern barbarians" that's their ultimate enemy. My theory is that they *are* Chinese all along, or else they wouldn't avoid using the word that much; they're only picking up the name "Manchuria" because they think "China" is CCP and southern. That's what I'm not happy about. If anyone on this land has the incentive to establish a new central empire and start the viscious cycle again, it would be the Manchurians.

Incentive?


They had been living a luscious life in the first thirty years of PRC with the remnants of Manchukuo industries turned into government-owned businesses. After CCP's economical reform in 1978, these businesses went through privatization gradually, and during the privatization process they went through massive lay-offs with workers getting poor or zero compensations; a lot of the workers went through very hard lives and even committed suicide. It's not a stretch to believe that some of them would believe us to be the "bad guy" because we had rapid economic growth during the same time they're suffering, even if the real reason was that the CCP needed the provinces in the south to bring in money by trading.

But wouldn't saying things like that severe the relationship between Cantonia and Manchukuo...?


Man, you should've asked them that question. We didn't attack them, they actively attacked us *first*; it's their nation-inventing strategy. It makes sense though; the Chinese would certainly hate it when the places they've occupied demand independence...

Okay, enough about that. Why should people support you?


Because it's beneficial to the free world. If Hokkienam regained its independence, there will be no China vs. Taiwan problem. If Cantonia regained its independence, there will be no China vs. the SEA problem. A loose collection of smaller countries is much more easier to deal with than any Chinese empire.

What if someone suspects that you're actually an undercover CCP spy?


It is really hard to really prove that you're *not* a CCP spy. I did try to push things forward but I failed; it may have something to do with this. It's only natural for people to think that way; if some random guy suddenly barges into the scene and says he's gonna do this and do that and et cetera, even I would be suspicious. I'm not a CCP spy. CCP spies never had any good ending, I'm not stupid enough to do that.

How can people help you (if they wanted to)?


You can at least spread the message for now. AFAIK I don't think Cantonia Independence Party or any group has an account for donation. I'll let you know when they eventually have one.

When will the Great Flood* become a reality?


We *are* in the Flood already. No one asks that question this year because we are clearly in the Flood right now; but let's say it's February 2022 instead of February 2023; my answer to that would be "I don't know and I don't care". It's meaningless to care about something that devastating. You tell your parents, you tell your friends, you tell all the people that are *really* important in your life that they need to flee or else they need to get prepared, that's it. People ask "when is the Great Flood coming when is the Great Flood coming" and I say how about you shut the fuck up about the Flood and focus on your work instead, it's not like you can stop the Flood, you know.

Some people might have the wrong idea that if Cantonia gained independence it'll be free of the Great Flood. This is wrong. The current Flood is completely unpreventable, we are just trying to salvage what would be left after the Flood. We might be able to build a nation with it, we might be not. This is what we do.

*: "The Great Flood", in auntology terms, being the wide-spread humanitarian disaster that was supposed to happen on Mainland East Asia in the near future.

What if you died before Cantonia could ever gain its independence?


As if I'd care... It took Poland 123 years, I don't think it would be surprising for Cantonia to take 150+ years. Just try your best in the game the God hath set up for you, it's not like I have a choice anyway.

One last question: do you really know how risky your goal is?


Of course. Independence movement is no joke, everyone knows that; we are all technically risking our lives here. But I have to do this. There's no other choices. Keep being Chinese isn't an option I'm willing to take; there's no future in it, only the cycle of being conquered again and again and people becoming more and more vile and nasty in the process. It is gambling for sure, but if I don't gamble, nothing will change.

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